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Gonna buy a new toy but which one? ones? opinions please
#1
got a little extra spending money coming my way and id like to invest in some more equipment....been going back and forth between getting a grumpy...or getting a cimex...or cimex and dual speed rotary....Now i have seen here in the past guys getting rid of some of these machines in lieu of others etc...Just want some feed back. As a side note i have owed a cimex before and of course a rotary...I also just recently purchased a trinity freedom... Im not really asking which machine is better per say...heck not sure what im asking here are my thoughts.

Grumpy Pros: On board sprayer and wheels on the ground? machine that uses pads and can be used for residential if freedom broke down. If the head weight is similar to that of freedom this could be beneficial I have found the freedom to be a beast to handle on berber and poly. It hurts my back. The sprayer would be great on commercial. It seems there is that phenomenom that your get a better result with on board sprayer than presraying ahead. Aslo wheels on the ground is much easier to use not only for my body but also for a helper to handle if were to have one.

grumpy cons: $$$$ it is expensive...ive read all the defensives of price but at the end its still a motor and a frame and a drive plate....i could buy my kid a decent car for $5500!! and the OP machines have a higher risk of break down...bearings motors etc....

Cimex pros $$ i could get a used one and save a ton but even new its much cheaper. they are virtually problem free like a rotary. I have experience with them and they are fast. I have done some commercial work with the freedom and it cleaned awesome but it was sllloooowwwww but maybe i just need more experience.

cimex cons: its basically a commercial only machine. it is somewhat an encap only machine although im aware there are pads for the drivers now as well but i have never used any so im not sure how well that works.

id like to hear from people who have owned both and get some feed back. Im leaning cimex just because i have the freedom op already...so all id be adding is the sprayer and wheels down where as cimex is a totally different beast....hhhhhhmmmm not sure what to do what to do???
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#2
(11-01-2014, 02:27 PM)joelhall Wrote: got a little extra spending money coming my way and id like to invest in some more equipment....been going back and forth between getting a grumpy...or getting a cimex...or cimex and dual speed rotary....Now i have seen here in the past guys getting rid of some of these machines in lieu of others etc...Just want some feed back. As a side note i have owed a cimex before and of course a rotary...I also just recently purchased a trinity freedom... Im not really asking which machine is better per say...heck not sure what im asking here are my thoughts.

Grumpy Pros: On board sprayer and wheels on the ground? machine that uses pads and can be used for residential if freedom broke down. If the head weight is similar to that of freedom this could be beneficial I have found the freedom to be a beast to handle on berber and poly. It hurts my back. The sprayer would be great on commercial. It seems there is that phenomenom that your get a better result with on board sprayer than presraying ahead. Aslo wheels on the ground is much easier to use not only for my body but also for a helper to handle if were to have one.

grumpy cons: $$$$ it is expensive...ive read all the defensives of price but at the end its still a motor and a frame and a drive plate....i could buy my kid a decent car for $5500!! and the OP machines have a higher risk of break down...bearings motors etc....

Cimex pros $$ i could get a used one and save a ton but even new its much cheaper. they are virtually problem free like a rotary. I have experience with them and they are fast. I have done some commercial work with the freedom and it cleaned awesome but it was sllloooowwwww but maybe i just need more experience.

cimex cons: its basically a commercial only machine. it is somewhat an encap only machine although im aware there are pads for the drivers now as well but i have never used any so im not sure how well that works.

id like to hear from people who have owned both and get some feed back. Im leaning cimex just because i have the freedom op already...so all id be adding is the sprayer and wheels down where as cimex is a totally different beast....hhhhhhmmmm not sure what to do what to do???
I am not the one to answer your question but a sprayer could be added to your Freedom as well as wheels. I have seen some user say the wheels on Freedom are not used much if at all.
OP crb HWE Orick orbital ophand buffer
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#3
What is your business mix commercial/residential?
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#4
residential....but that's the purpose of the purchase is a good and faster commercial machine
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#5
I'd get a Cimex from Excellent Supply with the 6 month 0 interest financing and free shipping. You'd be able to pay it off with $$$ earned and have an extra $5,500.00 in your pocket
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#6
(11-01-2014, 07:42 PM)joelhall Wrote: residential....but that's the purpose of the purchase is a good and faster commercial machine

I'm sort of in the same boat. We do all commercial. Average job size since June is over 9k sq ft. The Cimex by itself only serves limited purposes for us because there's no real soil removal beyond vacuuming. We started running the Low Boy behind the Cimex, which of course is labor intensive. We currently run an Orbot and Trinity together on jobs. The Trinity is light speeds ahead of the Orbot in terms of speed, but has proven to be wildly unreliable. TRS has been great to deal with in terms of getting parts, but that doesn't help when the machine is actually down and you're running on one machine with 25k sq ft to clean.

We're now toying with the idea of designing our own machine based off of a dual speed rotary. Speed is great, but you have to have reliability as well.
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#7
Buy a new Bicycle and have some more fun....

I think you work too much already...

Rick
Quality means doing it right when no one is looking...

Henry Ford
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#8
My Grumpy is on the way, but I have only played with a Cimex... other than hours of videos... From my OBSERVATIONS the Grumpy will be way quicker to the same level of clean.

I have had a couple of CM machines and did/do love them... traded all off to the Freedoms specifically because of jobs requiring me to carry the CM a long ways through snow and having employees that had to do the same. I'll find out if I haven't resolved that issue right away once my Grumpy arrives.

I do use/have used a spray system on one of my Freedoms a lot and do get a really quality job at least, in my opinion, really close to the same speed as could be with the CM/Rock/Grumpy. However, other than the carry issue, the Grumpy/CM will probably be a lot more comfortable on my old fat body by the next day.

Although the spray system works incredible on the Freedom, the sprayers that I bought to use have all cost me WAY more than it would have cost to go with Grumpy's to start with...

From what I see in the videos, I have to get at least one Grumpy for me to use at the very least on my commercials, BUT, I will be trying to convert over to all of my jobs if possible: look, stability, speed, etc.
Coby Gibson
formerly: www.45Clean.com
CobyGibson@me.com

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#9
(11-02-2014, 12:16 AM)Coby Wrote: My Grumpy is on the way, but I have only played with a Cimex... other than hours of videos... From my OBSERVATIONS the Grumpy will be way quicker to the same level of clean.

I have had a couple of CM machines and did/do love them... traded all off to the Freedoms specifically because of jobs requiring me to carry the CM a long ways through snow and having employees that had to do the same. I'll find out if I haven't resolved that issue right away once my Grumpy arrives.

I do use/have used a spray system on one of my Freedoms a lot and do get a really quality job at least, in my opinion, really close to the same speed as could be with the CM/Rock/Grumpy. However, other than the carry issue, the Grumpy/CM will probably be a lot more comfortable on my old fat body by the next day.

Although the spray system works incredible on the Freedom, the sprayers that I bought to use have all cost me WAY more than it would have cost to go with Grumpy's to start with...

From what I see in the videos, I have to get at least one Grumpy for me to use at the very least on my commercials, BUT, I will be trying to convert over to all of my jobs if possible: look, stability, speed, etc.
Pics of sprayer on freedom?
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#10
Yipes! Should be able to search this board? For my or Len Luebke's sprayers.... Several different configurations…
Basically the identical spray heads that are on the CM, rock and or now on the grumpy mounted under the handle just like they are on those machines…
I have used them like Ken Luebke does with a backpack sprayer, I have run various tubing types from the handle back to various battery sprayers, etc... Currently newest configuration is probably going to be my favorite: mounted a 'plug in' pump to the base of Freedom and 'pull' solution through the tubing rather than pushing from pump/source.

Wish I had a definitive solution, but certainly don't have it yet.

Can go faster, but how much?

Does/can work noticeably better when mixing encapsulates immediately as they are applied - especially on some commercial glue downs, but how much?

Etc etc.

Not sure that the 'old fashioned' simple ways of pre-spray and dwell aren't overall as good as anything else....

Coby
Coby Gibson
formerly: www.45Clean.com
CobyGibson@me.com

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#11
(12-30-2014, 09:42 AM)Coby Wrote: Yipes! Should be able to search this board? For my or Len Luebke's sprayers.... Several different configurations…
Basically the identical spray heads that are on the CM, rock and or now on the grumpy mounted under the handle just like they are on those machines…
I have used them like Ken Luebke does with a backpack sprayer, I have run various tubing types from the handle back to various battery sprayers, etc... Currently newest configuration is probably going to be my favorite: mounted a 'plug in' pump to the base of Freedom and 'pull' solution through the tubing rather than pushing from pump/source.

Wish I had a definitive solution, but certainly don't have it yet.

Can go faster, but how much?

Does/can work noticeably better when mixing encapsulates immediately as they are applied - especially on some commercial glue downs, but how much?

Etc etc.

Not sure that the 'old fashioned' simple ways of pre-spray and dwell aren't overall as good as anything else....

Coby
Tried searching but not much luck. Will try on computer. For this reason I prefer the cimex on cgd. So much easier and the results are awesome. Prespraying is a real pita... a drip system on my freedom could be better. Like the cimex maybe.
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#12
So I would get a cimex if I were you! Heck, 2 cimexes! Would still have 1k plus in your pocket. Maybe I am doing something wrong with mine, but my cimex is 50 percent faster and better than my freedom. ..
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#13
I just got a Grumpy and I have an Orbot. I do mostly residential and I must say the Grumpy is super fast and seems to do a better job than the Orbot. Plus, when I land the occasional commercial job the Grumpy will come in handy. I use my orbot as a back up now and for stripping VCT tile.
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#14
(12-30-2014, 10:07 AM)Bone Dry Carpet Wrote: Maybe I am doing something wrong with mine, but my cimex is 50 percent faster and better than my freedom. ..

I view the Freedom as more of a residential machine than a commercial one even though I know many use it on commercial including Coby. I'm lazy and like the ease of use of a machine that is wheels down and has an on board sprayer for commercial. The Cimex will be faster than the Freedom just because you have to prespray separately with the Freedom. It shouldn't be that much faster though if you use the Cimex the way Rick teaches using one wet pass followed with a dry pass.

I'm no Cimex expert but it shouldn't be cleaning better than your Freedom let alone by 50%. It's probably related to your prespraying. Either you're not putting enough down, spraying too large of an area and it's drying on you, or a combination of both.

With my Grumpy I only need one pass unless it's a really, really trashed area and it only uses a fraction of the cleaning solution the Cimex does.

It sounds like you have the perfect setup for your situation though. The Freedom for residential and the Cimex for commercial. You can followup with the Freedom after the Cimex on the real bad areas (entry ways, heavy traffic lanes) to remove the soil.
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#15
(12-30-2014, 12:28 PM)saabtrash Wrote:
(12-30-2014, 10:07 AM)Bone Dry Carpet Wrote: Maybe I am doing something wrong with mine, but my cimex is 50 percent faster and better than my freedom. ..

I view the Freedom as more of a residential machine than a commercial one even though I know many use it on commercial including Coby. I'm lazy and like the ease of use of a machine that is wheels down and has an on board sprayer for commercial. The Cimex will be faster than the Freedom just because you have to prespray separately with the Freedom. It shouldn't be that much faster though if you use the Cimex the way Rick teaches using one wet pass followed with a dry pass.

I'm no Cimex expert but it shouldn't be cleaning better than your Freedom let alone by 50%. It's probably related to your prespraying. Either you're not putting enough down, spraying too large of an area and it's drying on you, or a combination of both.

With my Grumpy I only need one pass unless it's a really, really trashed area and it only uses a fraction of the cleaning solution the Cimex does.

It sounds like you have the perfect setup for your situation though. The Freedom for residential and the Cimex for commercial. You can followup with the Freedom after the Cimex on the real bad areas (entry ways, heavy traffic lanes) to remove the soil.
Thanks for the feedback. Maybe I am not applying enough...maybe just using microfiber with strip does not cut it? I spray, do a pass with a damp microbeast, and then hope for the best. Then I grab the cimex and do it over. Really want this baby to perform though!
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#16
Microfiber with scrub strip is what most people will use on commercial. In real heavy traffic areas you may want to follow with a damp Glad. If you haven't already you may want to try using a fiber plus pad under your Freedom and see how it scrubs compared to the Cimex.
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#17
Bone Dry, I am not much of a believer in 1 pass & pray with any of my trinities, I like more soil removal than that option.

In commercial, I run my CM with a tan fiber pad, then follow 10 min later with freedom or rock with a MF pad to absorb soils, then post vac.

In res, I will prespray, run very quickly (AKA as fast as I can push it) on the worst of traffic lanes as to agitate in the prespray, then I go back slower through the whole room for cleaning /soil removal (all MFs usually unless traffic lane really nasty - then a glad last step), finally post vac & groom if a cut pile style carpet.

Try this system a time or 2 & let me know if this works for you. Hope this helps get some better results with your freedom!

Con
26 yrs in Alberta Canada. 2 truck & full rug plant operation. Cleanco Compact 47 TMs with RXs. Currently a Rock, a CM, & 2 Freedom Trinity, 3 Stepson. GLS20, rotary, 2 brute 17 & 2 breeze 17. 200psi porty. Dehus & dryers. Master tech.
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#18
(12-30-2014, 10:18 PM)Con Schultz Wrote: Bone Dry, I am not much of a believer in 1 pass & pray with any of my trinities, I like more soil removal than that option.

In commercial, I run my CM with a tan fiber pad, then follow 10 min later with freedom or rock with a MF pad to absorb soils, then post vac.

In res, I will prespray, run very quickly (AKA as fast as I can push it) on the worst of traffic lanes as to agitate in the prespray, then I go back slower through the whole room for cleaning /soil removal (all MFs usually unless traffic lane really nasty - then a glad last step), finally post vac & groom if a cut pile style carpet.

Try this system a time or 2 & let me know if this works for you. Hope this helps get some better results with your freedom!

Con
Excited to try it! Thank you!
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