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High pH Flaker for Con Schultz
#1
At the end of 2014 Con asked me if I would ever produce a high pH product like Grease Hawg that was a flaker instead of a film former (Con calls a crystallizer a flaker and aptly so).  

At the time, I told him no, it was unlikely to happen and I didn't think it could be done with such a high pH product.  He told me not to give up....  

Thanks Con, I didn't give up.  I worked on the project, on and off, all last year.

I am happy to say, that we have been able to obtain a very new Polymer that will allow us to accomplish this task using the right combination of ingredients. I expect to release such a product very soon (within a few days... shooting for this weekend or Feb 1st, but that could change).

The new product, will be a translucent amber color instead of whitish like Grease Hawg & many of our other products.   I expect the name to be called "Top Dog", but that is not in stone.

Top Dog will have a high pH (approx 12 at 4oz per gallon) and it will have excellent crystallization like many of our lower pH products do.  All of our testing has shown Top Dog used at 2 oz per gallon, will clean as well as Grease Hawg at 4oz per gallon!   It will also have a low, pleasant, minty scent at use dilution.   It will be able to be used with VLM or HWE methods, but will have higher foam.

I expect the price will be $52.50 per gallon... I know that sounds high, but since it will clean just as well or better than Grease Hawg using 1/2 as much it will actually cost less to get the same or better clean and great crystallization on top of that!

Enjoy and thanks for all of your support... X-tra thanks to Con Schultz for encouraging me not to give up.

Steve
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#2
Steve, 
Okay... I'm am really dense I guess.  I have read your previous explanations about the difference between crystallizers and film formers and when to use what.  It's probbaly because I'm the type of person who makes a choice in what product to use and once the choice is made I run with it and I forget all the reasons why I did choose it in the first place.

Why would we use this product instead of GH - other than maybe ending up to be cheaper due to the dilution rate?

You probably get sick from trying to explain this stuff to us dummies.
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#3
Here ya go Barry http://nostickyresidue.com/forum/showthr...r#pid43940.
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#4
Well this is a great surprize! 

I confess I am not a great fan of film formers as my job is to remove things from the carpet - not coat them & leave it there.

I know I do not clean a whole bunch of stuff that need Nuclear sauce  frankly , never understood the need 
for that nuclear stuff. But I clean 1 a week 'maybe' that needs heavier work.

GH cleans very very well.so I look forward to the TOP DOG!

thanks Steve for BEING AN INNOVATOR! I keep buying from those that do the hard work of trying to continue improvements, instead of copycats who took the easy but more profitable road.

Steve - You are truly appreciated!
26 yrs in Alberta Canada. 2 truck & full rug plant operation. Cleanco Compact 47 TMs with RXs. Currently a Rock, a CM, & 2 Freedom Trinity, 3 Stepson. GLS20, rotary, 2 brute 17 & 2 breeze 17. 200psi porty. Dehus & dryers. Master tech.
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#5
(01-28-2016, 12:04 AM)Con Schultz Wrote: Well this is a great surprize! 

I confess I am not a great fan of film formers as my job is to remove things from the carpet - not coat them & leave it there.

I know I do not clean a whole bunch of stuff that need Nuclear sauce  frankly , never understood the need 
for that nuclear stuff. But I clean 1 a week 'maybe' that needs heavier work.

GH cleans very very well.so I look forward to the TOP DOG!

thanks Steve for BEING AN INNOVATOR! I keep buying from those that do the hard work of trying to continue improvements, instead of copycats who took the easy but more profitable road.

Steve - You are truly appreciated!

Not understanding this statement?  If you apply any encap, crystallizer or film former, you are leaving it there, unless you come back and vacuum yourself.....Its doubtful all crystals will break away and vacuum up after the first vacuuming.  I assume it will take a few vacuum cycles to remove the extra polymer.  The difference that I see is the other readily breaks away, while the film former takes a little longer to chip away.

I personally prefer film formers.....Not for any reason other than my niche is apts.......If I use a crystallizer, the next day, the carpet is crunchy, or very stiff at the least.......The last thing you want is a new tenant calling and complaining when they move in that the carpet is too crunchy, and the carpet cleaner must of left all kinds of soap behind.  Been there, and done that too often.......Film formers ideally are better in instances where you dont really get to talk to the resident..the carpet may be a little stiff, but no where near what a crystallizer leaves........Now on cgd.......I do like and prefer crystallizers.
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#6
awwwman


It looks like we are going to have to delay the release of this product.  My supplier has informed me that they are now unable to obtain one of the key ingredients that we need...[Image: cry.gif]   So, for now at least, it is back to the drawing board, to see if we can find an adequate substitute.

Thanks,

Steve
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#7
Sad 
(01-29-2016, 06:57 AM)Steve Smith Wrote: awwwman


It looks like we are going to have to delay the release of this product.  My supplier has informed me that they are now unable to obtain one of the key ingredients that we need...[Image: cry.gif]   So, for now at least, it is back to the drawing board, to see if we can find an adequate substitute.

Thanks,

Steve
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#8
(01-29-2016, 10:23 AM)Rcleaner Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 06:57 AM)Steve Smith Wrote: awwwman


It looks like we are going to have to delay the release of this product.  My supplier has informed me that they are now unable to obtain one of the key ingredients that we need...[Image: cry.gif]   So, for now at least, it is back to the drawing board, to see if we can find an adequate substitute.

Thanks,

Steve
Hope you stick with it Steve.  It sounds very interesting.  Better cleaning = fewer passes = less time = more profitable & makes us a HERO in our customers' eyes.
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#9
Any more progress on Top Dog? @Steve Smith I was very excited to learn that you were experimenting with a high ph crystalizer and that it also had a mint fragrance Big Grin
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#10
(03-10-2016, 08:19 PM)Rcleaner Wrote: Any more progress on Top Dog? @Steve Smith I was very excited to learn that you were experimenting with a high ph crystalizer and that it also had a mint fragrance Big Grin

Still unable to obtain one of the ingredients that I had hoped to use.  I have found a good substitute, but not quite as good.  So the cleaning power is now about the same as Grease Hawg and the product would be more expensive.  I have it in the hands of some testers right now and will am waiting for more feedback.
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#11
Just completed tests have shown that this product will no longer crystallize after it has been mixed for a few weeks.  It will still make an excellent film former, but that was/is not the purpose of this project. 

With poor crystallization after a few weeks and the difficulty in obtaining one of the key ingredients we are placing this project, as it is, back on hold for now.

We have no intention of giving up; we believe such a product would be beneficial for many and an excellent addition to our product line.  But, for now, it is back to the drawing board; we will have to come up with a different formula if possible.Sad

Thanks,

Steve
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#12
I see in some post Guys are using grease hawg to provide high ph for cutting into heavy soil and then using hotknife for the polymer over grease hawg.

From a chemists point of view ----is this a waste of time when using these products like that on carpet fiber?


Would the high ph have bad effect on polymer of the hotknife to stop crystialization when drying?
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#13
(03-13-2016, 11:38 AM)joel hoppe Wrote: I see in some post Guys are using grease hawg to provide high ph for cutting into heavy soil and then using hotknife for the polymer over grease hawg.

From a chemists point of view ----is this a waste of time when using these products like that on carpet fiber?

IMO, it is a waste of money, but it will help me retire someday. Tongue   Grease Hawg will still vacuum if used alone, it will just take a bit longer to be completely vacuumed.  If I was still cleaning carpet, I would have no problem using Grease Hawg alone on commercial carpet.

Would the high ph have bad effect on polymer of the hotknife to stop crystialization when drying?

No, IMO, Hot Knife will still crystallize as normal... the Grease Hawg will have little affect unless the two products are mixed together... if mixed together, before application, crystallization will be less.
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#14
Thank for the info
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