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VLM Waste Tank
#21
This post is more relevant here:

http://nostickyresidue.com/forum/thread-2489.html
I'm just trying to hack my way to glory.

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#22
(08-13-2013, 03:50 PM)Andy Mc Wrote: Derek,
Made 350 bucks today by padding

You guys are a bad influence on me, now I can't talk crap for at least a week, and have to get of the high horse for awhile. lol

Use Head

well i wont post numbers but you beat my padding money today Andy lol

nice pic's D.
Currently retired from HWE; VLM only. Commercial Only...well except for the occasional resi job every few weeks.

Carpet Cleaning Rochester NY
Carpet Cleaner Rochester NY

The tools I use or have on the van ... in order from most used, to least used:  Dyson ; 19" Cimex ; Multi-Sprayer ; Orbot ; Oreck-Orbiter ; Hoover-Conquest ; Cyclo Polisher ; DryPod ; 20" Whittaker Trio.
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#23
(08-13-2013, 03:50 PM)Andy Mc Wrote: Derek,
Made 350 bucks today by padding

You guys are a bad influence on me, now I can't talk crap for at least a week, and have to get of the high horse for awhile. lol

Use Head

You HACK!!!!

I knew you'd be back!
Carpet Cleaning Salinas, Monterey, Pebble Beach Ca
ProGreen Kleen & Floor Care
http://Progreenkleen.net
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#24
(08-12-2013, 07:25 PM)Andy Mc Wrote: I can dump my dirt cup from my dyson in a buket of water after my pre vac and it will turn black. Yet all I did was vacuum.

No doubt OP pulls dirt out of carpt, but don't get into the "look at my water" game. Casue some steam cleaner will show you 75 gallons of thick tar black water and make your 4 gallon washing water look silly.

As I say no doubt OP cleans carpet, but lets be honest with our self's , no where close to what a TM will do. If you use one for two weeks you'll get what I'm saying.

I find OP guys need to constantly justify their method , to customers, to other cleaners, and to them self's, it's just the nature of doing something different,

My advise? stop trying to justify the method, go out and make your money.

As to the question if a TM will make you more money? The answer is yes, referrals go thru the roof, and productivity sky rockets.

it opens the door to a lot of work that you can't get with an OP machine.

Not knocking any of you guys , I was you at one time, and I had my share of board battles trying to defend VLM cleaning. Fact I was one of the few that had the guts to go on HWE boards and take it head on,

OP only guys just have to except that you are the step children of carpet cleaning, yet you can make a nice living.

Hmmm... I can't remember ever 'justifying' OP cleaning with a client; just seemingly only with other carpet cleaners. I've even stopped doing that too because it only leads to a somewhat defensive conversation by the TM guys. I'm starting to feel like the justification is the other way around nowadays since VLM cleaning is becoming more and more popular; especially in certain areas like where I am. I find that the TM owners feel the need to justify their much higher expenses to the VLM guys while clients are just as happy with any process; as so long as the tech does the job correctly and actually cleans the carpet above their expectations. That's really all that matters in my book... As far as jobs that TM guys can do that OPers can't; it's actually the other way around in my area. I do a ton of highrise condo and apt cleaning because the TMers can't. The only jobs that I turn down because TM'ers have the advantage are production upholstery jobs (large church chairs and pews), and greasy spoon restaurants. Oh well, I'm willing to give those up to keep my overhead low. padding

BTW, I'm not bashing TMs at all; I like them a lot. I've used them for years with my father's company, and they clean VERY well (depending on the tech, of course), but 'justifying' a decision to strictly use VLM methods to a clients is simply not accurate IMO. I've found that they just want their carpets cleaned; which is the nature of our business. Method simply just isn't as important as many carpet cleaners 'feel' that it is. Just my 2 cents.
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#25
How long have you been an OP only guy?

I]ve been doing this for 7 years, my statement of having to justify the method to customers is based on my experience, so yes,,,, it is an accurate statement, not something I just made up.

Also I have made many good friends over the years that are OP only guys, when I talk to them on the phone they tell me the same thing happens to them (having to justify the method to customers.

I know at least 5 guys (including me 6 guys) that started OP only and have bought TM's primarily for that reason,

Of Couse not every customer!! I have many that like me to Op clean. But it does happen .

I ' have a good friend that is an OP only guy that is the favorite cleaner of a large PM company, they have him sometimes come in an fix the work of the TM guys (prolly hacks)

he dose very well with OP, even he has told me some funny things that he's had customers say to him in there disrespect for his method.

I have Never had to justify the TM. Never once got a funny look, never once had someone say "what the heck is that??) Were does the dirt go? Where are your hoses?? Etc.
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#26
You've been on quite the method kick lately, Andy.

People questioning process/method is the exception, not the norm. Unless of course you're not getting good results.

For me the issue is production and taking on specific challenges (maybe 10% of the time) where VLM is not as effective.

Production is negated to a great extent, but not entirely, if you VLM with a two man crew. But if you're a genuine O/O you need a TM if you really want to move quick, imo.

(08-17-2013, 03:24 PM)Andy Mc Wrote: How long have you been an OP only guy?

I]ve been doing this for 7 years, my statement of having to justify the method to customers is based on my experience, so yes,,,, it is an accurate statement, not something I just made up.

Also I have made many good friends over the years that are OP only guys, when I talk to them on the phone they tell me the same thing happens to them (having to justify the method to customers.

I know at least 5 guys (including me 6 guys) that started OP only and have bought TM's primarily for that reason,

Of Couse not every customer!! I have many that like me to Op clean. But it does happen .

I ' have a good friend that is an OP only guy that is the favorite cleaner of a large PM company, they have him sometimes come in an fix the work of the TM guys (prolly hacks)

he dose very well with OP, even he has told me some funny things that he's had customers say to him in there disrespect for his method.

I have Never had to justify the TM. Never once got a funny look, never once had someone say "what the heck is that??) Were does the dirt go? Where are your hoses?? Etc.
I'm just trying to hack my way to glory.

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1 X's Orbot, Windsor & Sanitare Vacs, Multisprayer, Oreck Orbitor, Stepson, BrushEncap (TM4) CRB  
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#27
(08-17-2013, 03:24 PM)Andy Mc Wrote: How long have you been an OP only guy?

I]ve been doing this for 7 years, my statement of having to justify the method to customers is based on my experience, so yes,,,, it is an accurate statement, not something I just made up.

Also I have made many good friends over the years that are OP only guys, when I talk to them on the phone they tell me the same thing happens to them (having to justify the method to customers.

I know at least 5 guys (including me 6 guys) that started OP only and have bought TM's primarily for that reason,

Of Couse not every customer!! I have many that like me to Op clean. But it does happen .

I ' have a good friend that is an OP only guy that is the favorite cleaner of a large PM company, they have him sometimes come in an fix the work of the TM guys (prolly hacks)

he dose very well with OP, even he has told me some funny things that he's had customers say to him in there disrespect for his method.

I have Never had to justify the TM. Never once got a funny look, never once had someone say "what the heck is that??) Were does the dirt go? Where are your hoses?? Etc.

I get what you're saying, but 'justifying' is much different than 'educating' a client about a different method of cleaning to reach similar results. "Justifying" is giving a client an 'excuse' as to why I'm NOT using good ol' steam cleaning to clean their carpets. Two very different scenarios...
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#28
I have been educating customers for 40 years, no problems, a neighbor in Lexington was on our Monday night webinar, he has turned 100% of his customer to OP, so he sold his Vortex, his partner in Az is doing the same thing...
John "PadMan" Geurkink
Trinity Renewal Systems
The Grandfather of OP
Encap Carpet Cleaning Machines
I was OP when OP wasn't cool
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#29
(08-17-2013, 07:55 PM)John Geurkink Wrote: I have been educating customers for 40 years, no problems, a neighbor in Lexington was on our Monday night webinar, he has turned 100% of his customer to OP, so he sold his Vortex, his partner in Az is doing the same thing...


Andy do you not find this statement from John very interesting ?
I would be very interested in your reply givin your opinion on OPs ability to clean carpet.
Andy in a previous post you said that you are using the OP method. Then in other posts you have made it quite clear that you believe that OP is inferior to TM and that has me confused why you would even bother with OP seeing is that is what you so strongly believe. I see it as you admitting that you are nothing more than a self proclaimed hack.
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#30
Dude, I'm not on a method Kick, I built my company the fist 4 years primarily with OP, I still use VLM to this day. Makes 7 years running VLM machines

Some of the best friends I've made in this industry are OP only guys

I'm just stating my point of view on these topic's, based on my honest experience.
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#31
(08-17-2013, 10:41 PM)Mardie VanBree Wrote:
(08-17-2013, 07:55 PM)John Geurkink Wrote: I have been educating customers for 40 years, no problems, a neighbor in Lexington was on our Monday night webinar, he has turned 100% of his customer to OP, so he sold his Vortex, his partner in Az is doing the same thing...


Andy do you not find this statement from John very interesting ?
I would be very interested in your reply givin your opinion on OPs ability to clean carpet.
Andy in a previous post you said that you are using the OP method. You have made it quite clear that you believe that OP is inferior to TM and that has me confused why you would even bother with OP seeing is that is what you so strongly believe. I see it as you admitting that you are nothing more than a self proclaimed hack.



LOL Mardie , you crack me up. This is not a war, and I never called any OP cleaners a hack. Having more then one tool on the truck certainly wont make anyone a hack. lol

OP is a great method for some jobs, for most residential work (95% ) I prefer to use a TM,

some high rise accounts I prefer the OP (or now 175) to a portable,

also prefer vlm for my commercial work. I sold one of my OP machines a few years ago, then sold my other one about a year or two later,

My vlm tool is now a beast of a 175, I am looking to add a CRB before the year is over, ( had TWO of them and sold them both)

As for Johns post, I say good for those guys who sold their TM and went OP, it's their business and so they are the ones who have to live or die based on their choices, only they know what they need to succeed , not for me to tell them what to do.

I'll just say for me and (many guys I know) that my business didn't take off until I got the TM. Also know several TM guys who tried to switch to Op or at least add it and couldn't make it work , hated it, went back to the TM.

So it works both ways.
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#32
(08-17-2013, 07:55 PM)John Geurkink Wrote: I have been educating customers for 40 years, no problems, a neighbor in Lexington was on our Monday night webinar, he has turned 100% of his customer to OP, so he sold his Vortex, his partner in Az is doing the same thing...

oh you mean the guy that cant get a restaurant clean with his vortex?

LOL!!!!

I wish some of the guys that have both your equipment AND a tm that ive talked to would post what I have chatted to them about in PM on the boards.....

Its best to have BOTH methods to some degree.
Dustin

www.CleanTechCleaners.com
www.CleanTechsk.com


Grumpy,cm,cimex, 175's 13"-20",square pad,cyclo's,stepson wannabe
aerotech tm (actually KNOW how to use it Tongue), ninja portable, steamin demon(tsunami)
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#33
[/quote]I get what you're saying, but 'justifying' is much different than 'educating' a client about a different method of cleaning to reach similar results. "Justifying" is giving a client an 'excuse' as to why I'm NOT using good ol' steam cleaning to clean their carpets. Two very different scenarios...
[/quote]

Jusifiy," educate, " "talk them in to", "make them understand", what ever.

I don't have to say jack any more, other then I have a TM , they get that with out any "educating" to do.

ANd that's the point.
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#34
Andy I just wanted to see how good you are at back paddling. I just don't like it when one cleaner is trying to tell another cleaner what he can and cant do with the equipment they are using. Just to many variables involved for anyone to pass judgment without being their and seeing how different cleaners go about it.

Another thing is that you can take one cleaner and give him a certain method to use and they may do a fantastic job day in and day out, BUT you can give another cleaner that same method and he may say it is the most useless method he has ever used.

Ya know different strokes for different folks.

The reason I like this board is because the people here are so open minded and are not threatened by the different methods. They just help each other out regardless of what equipment they have.

I could go on and say it always seems to be the TM mentality that always turns the method topic into nonsence but I wont.
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#35
"The reason I like this board is because the people here are so open minded and are not threatened by the different methods. They just help each other out regardless of what equipment they have.

I could go on and say it always seems to be the TM mentality that always turns the method topic into nonsence but I wont.
[/quote]

LOL Down Laughing
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#36
most everyone knows here that I have both OP & TM, and a few other toys as well.

I like toys - they all have their place. I do feel for those that only have 1 choice for every situation - because it isnt always the best choice for that application.

I doubt I will ever be just a 1 toy guy - at least in my current biz. If I ever semi retire down to 1/2 time etc - then I might consider it. There are just too many times that 'the right toy' is just too nice to have.

We should add that andys comment of "I have Never had to justify the TM. Never once got a funny look, never once had someone say "what the heck is that??) Were does the dirt go? Where are your hoses?? Etc. " doesnt mean the questions are implying that you are a hack, or you do a lousy job etc. Clients can be simply curious about what they have not seen before. Just because clients ask this or other questions- we shouldnt be taking offense to it - rather you should welcome it as it give you opportunity to prove & cement in their heads that you are absolutely the only cleaner they ever want back!

IMO
Con
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#37
(08-18-2013, 09:57 PM)Con Schultz Wrote: We should add that andys comment of "I have Never had to justify the TM. Never once got a funny look, never once had someone say "what the heck is that??) Were does the dirt go? Where are your hoses?? Etc. " doesnt mean the questions are implying that you are a hack, or you do a lousy job etc. Clients can be simply curious about what they have not seen before. Just because clients ask this or other questions- we shouldnt be taking offense to it - rather you should welcome it as it give you opportunity to prove & cement in their heads that you are absolutely the only cleaner they ever want back!

IMO
Con

well said Con clap

i've had to explain / answer curious questions when i used to HWE as well...no biggie. don't believe me? when, while vacuuming, some of our clients ask us, "oh is the carpet clean now?" you can bet they don't know what my wand / hoses are either. of course these are typically clients who've never had their CC'ed before so how would they know anything.?.


as far as method, TBH in 15 years i have only cleaned about 500 homes....8 of those years has been strictly VLM. never had a client say not to come back because of the method i used. OK i lied, one was very unhappy when i hacked it out with HWE and left it soaking wet with my Bain... but admittedly i have had 1 CGD client tell me last Winter that he wouldn't be using me again. it was a country club that i've cleaned for several times before. he was the new owner and he couldn't wrap his head around VLM...understandable, no hard feelings. i was kind and, as has happened before, i wouldn't be surprised if he calls me back in the future...it's all good. plenty of work out there for everyone, no matter your method dance
Currently retired from HWE; VLM only. Commercial Only...well except for the occasional resi job every few weeks.

Carpet Cleaning Rochester NY
Carpet Cleaner Rochester NY

The tools I use or have on the van ... in order from most used, to least used:  Dyson ; 19" Cimex ; Multi-Sprayer ; Orbot ; Oreck-Orbiter ; Hoover-Conquest ; Cyclo Polisher ; DryPod ; 20" Whittaker Trio.
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#38
CleanTech... were you there?
oh you mean the guy that cant get a restaurant clean with his vortex?

LOL!!!!


I know some like to state EVERY job they do is perfect, however most KNOW better. Funny how some like to belittle a guy they don't know and probably is a more experienced cleaner than you are.

But have at it, and pretty soon all will be taken with a grain of salt.
John "PadMan" Geurkink
Trinity Renewal Systems
The Grandfather of OP
Encap Carpet Cleaning Machines
I was OP when OP wasn't cool
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#39
(08-19-2013, 03:38 PM)John Geurkink Wrote: CleanTech... were you there?
oh you mean the guy that cant get a restaurant clean with his vortex?

LOL!!!!


I know some like to state EVERY job they do is perfect, however most KNOW better. Funny how some like to belittle a guy they don't know and probably is a more experienced cleaner than you are.

But have at it, and pretty soon all will be taken with a grain of salt.

PigsFly
Dustin

www.CleanTechCleaners.com
www.CleanTechsk.com


Grumpy,cm,cimex, 175's 13"-20",square pad,cyclo's,stepson wannabe
aerotech tm (actually KNOW how to use it Tongue), ninja portable, steamin demon(tsunami)
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